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Martin Bashir

News/Business. Journal Martin Bashir uncovers some of the world's biggest breaking news stories.

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Ezra 10, Pakistan 10, Washington 8, Us 7, United States 4, Boehner 3, Yemen 3, Chris Hayes 3, Donna Edwards 2, Richard Engle 2, Spencer 2, Jay Powell 2, Freddie Mac 2, Jack 2, Msnbc 2, U.s. 2, America 2, Maryland 2, Cairo 2, Sharm El Sheikh 2,
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  MSNBC    Martin Bashir    News/Business. Journal Martin Bashir uncovers  
   some of the world's biggest breaking news stories.  

    July 8, 2011
    3:00 - 4:00pm EDT  

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situation that we face is pretty urgent. as a matter of fact, i would describe it as dire. >> it just does not make sense for americans to suffer under higher taxes in an economy like this. >> the number that you have been hearing all day is 18,000. 18,000 jobs were added in june. but to understand the report, that is is really the wrong number, because the right one is 100,000 which is how many more jobs we would have needed to keep up with the population growth. so on today's show, we want to cover the job's crisis in three parts. we want to first look at the completely insane thing that washington might do to make it much worse. and secondly, we will look at the crucial commonsense policies that it won't pass to make it better. and the third is a reminder that the people who got us into the mess are richer and more powerful than ever, actually. and first, you know where we really lost jobs last month? the public sector. the public sector lost about
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40,000. and in fact, since obama was elected we have lost more than 500,000 public sector jobs and think about that when you hear michele bachmann say how easy it is to manage the economy without raising the debt ceiling. >> we can't keep spending for raising the debt ceiling. i will not vote to raise the debt ceiling. >> ever wonder how many checks the federal government sends out? what would you guess? 1 million? try 80 million. those are paychecks to the troops and social security checks and vendors supplying the troop, and disability payments, and we are told that we just need to make some choices. need to learn to live within our means and stop spending. you know what is easy? learn hough to say we need to make hard choices, and you know what is hard, making them. let's give it a shot. jay powell served for deputy
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secretary of finance for george bush, and he is used to making choices so he sat down to figure out what options we have if we don't raise the debt creeling in august, and, oh, my god, they are not pretty. if we blow through the limit, we won't pay 40 to 45% of the bills. let's say we start by paying off the interest on the debt, and continue to keep paying the bills for medicare and medicaid and social security, and the troops. that is it. that is all we can do. at that point we shut off money no fbi and the troops don't get the paychecks and the troops don't get benefits and the courts shut down and so do the national nuclear programs and i hope you weren't trying to keep an eye on any loose fissile material. and the troops will go home with the food inspections. and the people repairing the federal highways take a hike. the irs shuts down and not fun if you are waiting for a refund, and no one is inspecting the food. and speaking of food, poor
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families stop receiving food stamps, and the department of education stops receiving pell grants. so if you were relying on these to help you child to college, forget it. and so contracts will be shutdown so they don't know if they will be paid so they will start to horde cash. you know what it is called when consumers and businesses horde cash all at once? it is a recession. that is not good for anyone. we are lucky enough to have jay pel join us today to talk about it all. thank you for joining me. take me through the next step here. let's say we do go through all of this and make the hard choices, how does this ripple into the rest of the economy or stay stay located in the public, private sector? >> well, that will total about $134 billion, and one way to think about it is a 10% gdp cut for the month of august. it is no question to have
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significant effects on the broader e kconomy and people at home not getting the checks for perhaps social security, and we don't know who won't get paid, but $134 billion of payments won't be made, and it can only have a significant negative effect for the economy if it goes on for a period of time. >> one of the arguments from bachmann and others who don't want to raise the limit immediately is that as long as we pay off the interest on the debt which we can which is 10% of the expenditures, we are fine, and no worry, and in the report, you mention that we have tole roll over 5$500 billion of debt in aweugusaugust, so can y explain what will happen if we try to do this in a chaotic atmosphere to pay the bills. >> we don't believe an intentional debt default is a good idea, but we know that $500 billion in treasury debt matu
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matures, and we don't pay it off, but we take new debt from the investors roll it over. it is like rolling over a home mortgage with a new lender so there are never two outstanding debts at the same time. so it is a in order their course of operation, and it does not make headlines in the ordinary course of business, but if we are in the midst of this situation of not paying social security and every television set is focused on not paying the bills for the first time in history, so it is not the ordinary course. most of the bidders, half of whom are foreign would sit on the sidelines and the result is higher interest rates and the supply and demand will be affected and that will affect the economy negatively. and then you won't have enough bidders, because when the debt is due, you have to pay it off or you are in default. >> and that would seem to me to begin paying higher interest rates you would see the perverse
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argument of the outcome where both sides want to reduce the deficit to do something to increase it, right? >> yes, higher interest costs will increase the deficit particularly if they persist for a long time and the evidence from the prior episodes is that they will persist for quite a while. >> and those interest costs don't stop for the federal government, because they ripple into the market like corporate loans and home loans. >> well, all private sector loans are off of the treasury rates and if it persists for a day or two, you would see it increased and all consumer rates would interact as well, and all of the municipal rates would interact as well by going up. >> and finally, with the treasury department in theory being in charge of how we begin to apportions out the payments, have they ever done anything like this before? do they have the capabilities to decide which 45 million checks or 45% of the checks we don't actually pay? >> well, it would be a mechanical nightmare and you can imagine 80 payments a month
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spread out on the secretary's floor choosing which to pay and which not to pay. more importantly, the executive branch has no institutional role to choose which laws to obey and which to not. this is completely unique in the history and nothing that any administration would want to do and it is not pretty fit happens. >> jay powell, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> and when we come back, washington may not be ready to act, but we are. we will lay out the game plan. and a choice. take advil now and maybe up to four in a day. or choose aleve and two pills for a day free of pain. way to go, coach. ♪
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today's jobs numbers were so bad that the white house did something that it has not done in some time. it admitted straight forwardly that the deficit was taking too much attention away from jobs. >> the debate here in washington has been dominated by issues of
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debt limit. but what matters most to americans and what matters most to me as president in the wake of the worst downturn in our lifetimes is getting our economy on a sounder footing. today's job report confirms what most americans already know, we still have a long way to go and a lot of work to do to give people the security and opportunity that they deserve. >> but the white house hasn't simply turned to deficits, because they love to talk about deficits. they are talking about them because they can't get the votes for further job creation. indeed, president obama rattled off a long list of policies that congress could pass but won't. >> there are a few things that we can and should do right now by investing in rebuilding our roads and our bridges and our railways and our infrastructure, and we could put back to work right now some of of those construction workers that lost
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their jobs when the housing market went bust. right now, we can give our entrepreneurs the chance to let their job creating ideas move to market faster by streamlining our patent process. today, congress can streamline trade agreements to help businesses sell more american-made goods to asia and south america. and supporting thousands of jobs here at home. right now, there are a lot of middle-class families who sure could use the security of knowing that the tax cut that i signed in december to help boost the economy and put $1,000 in the pockets of american families, that that is still going to be around next year. there are bills and trade agreements before congress right now that could get all of these ideas moving. all of them have bipartisan support, and all of them could pass immediately, and i urge congress not to wait.
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>> that last sentence is well, wrong. none of those bills have enough bipartisan support to pass immediately, and you know how to tell? none of them have passed. but he is right, we can all help, so be clear then, it is not that washington can't do anything to help unemployed and it is that it isn't or won't do anything to help the unemployed and it is consciously rejecting, and sticking the fingers in the ears and yelling nah, nah, nah, and we can't hear. but because it seems impossible, does not make it impossible to do, and politicians should not pretend otherwise. three years ago the jobs market was rocked by a financial crisis we have not recovered from, but today, it is a political crisis that we need to break. what if it weren't being held back? in a world without political constraint what would we and should we do about jobs. joining me is neil irwin, my colleague from the washington post.
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good to see you. >> hi, ezra. >> i don't want you to be constrained by what congress can and cannot do, but what can we do. >> well, as the president alluded to, there is a lot of infrastructure work that needs to be done, with bridges and roads and rail lines that are showing the age, and you can imagine the big plan to spend the money for the upgrade of the infrastructure and something of long lasting benefits to be done over several years and not one-off stimulus, but takes place over five or ten years and you could spend a half a trillion or trillion dollars and if you did, that you might want to think about simultaneously fiscal restraint on the health care cost are the long-term deficit problems and make sure that the interest rates don't rise and offset the rises, but there is a real opportunity to put construction workers to work, and make the infrastructure stronger. >> when we talk about jobs, we tend to talk about congress a lot, but you report on the
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federal reserve, and it is the power over the economy that people often underestimate. so what if ben bernanke could get enough votes on the board, what could he do to help? >> well, the federal reserve is aggressive in trying to support the economy. they have the normal tools all employed. they cut the interest rates to zero and keep them there for a long time and if they do something more, it is thinking outside of the box and in a more conventional way, and one way is to try to support the economy further is to raise the inflation target, and right now they aim for 2% inflation and if they aim for 3%, they could have lower real interest rates and that would support growth and job creation more and it would mean higher inflation over time, and people don't like inflation, but it would help on the jobs front. >> and you know, the white house did something that i was not expecting the other day, and they said that maybe we haven't done enough on housing, and they came out with some policies that frankly were modest, but you and i have discussed a bit of what they could do with freddy an
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fanny thfa -- freddie mac and fannie mae, and can you talk about that? >> yes, they were put in conservatorship, and the american taxpayers have put hundreds of millions of dollars into them filling the holes they lost, and you could use the government control of the companies more aggressively. right now for example you have someone with a $300,000 mortgage and the house is only worth $290,000, and the interest rates are low, but they can't refinance the mortgage, because they are under water on it and even if they are paying the bills and keeping up, so to help people take advantage of the low mortgage rates if the government directed freddie mac and fannie mae to lower the options for people, and allow people who are underwater that would mean more take home pay to use for other things. >> and one thing that i think about when we talk about the
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policies, and the potential two-fer policies to get the stimulus into the economy and the support, and also take care of the longer term needs. so deficit reduction is one, and liberals would agree to long-term deficit reduction, if we have more federal stimulus, and infrahave uk chur is another one, and if we do it when the joblessness is high, and materials are cheerngs ap, we ge out of of the dollars. is there anything else that you can think of to support the larger national needs and support the economy. >> well, it is a important point that you are making. if it is long-term deficit reduction, it can create maneuvering in the short run and if the markets were convinced that we had a handle on the medicare costs, and the medicaid cost over the longer term over the next 10, 20, 30 years, more maneuvering room and less sense to cut the expenses right now. that also applies on the state and the government, and the state and the local government finance and we saw last month we got the terrible jobs report this morning and part of the reason is that the state and the
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local governments cut another 40,000 jobs. well, you can imagine if the government can afford more aid to the states to help that if they were simultaneously cutting the long-term debt if there was not a fear of the sinterest rats rising. >> thank you, neil. when we come back, we will look at a lawmaker locked in a surprising fight. >> ( rooster crows ) >> by 2020, 50 billion network devices will roam the earth. that's seven devices per person. this will change how we work in ways we've never before imagined. what do you need to secure your people, their devices, and your business? a network that can evolve and grow to protect your human network.
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back in washington, it is not just the democrats and the republicans can't agree. democrats and democrats can't agree. we are ports that president obama may put entitlements that are sacred to the party on the table, some democrats are crying foul and demanding that democrats present a unified message on protecting the programs crucial to the base and the millions of americans' daily lives, but what about a unified message on jobs. joining us from capitol hill is donna edwards a democrat from maryland and good to have you with us, congresswoman. >> good to be here, ezra. >> and you quote ripped into the
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fellow maryland democrat whip steny hoyer said that the entitlement cuts are going to be deep, so what sort of fight is brewing and what specific cuts are being expressed? >> well, there is no fight between the democrats about the commitment to preserving and protecting medicare and social security, and that was a unified message coming out of the caucus, and the point of the caucus meetings are for those to make it clear that we have a unified position for house democrats going into the discussions with the white house, and i feel certain of that. and i feel that even more strongly today that house democrats are committed to joining the american people, and the overwhelming majority of the american people who want to preserve medicare and social security, and that cuts to those programs should not be part of this conversation about reducing the debt and deficit. >> and one thing that has been striking is that democrats find rapid and expressing unanimity on the budget cuts is that after
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congressman ryan's budget came out, the unanimity was effective, and we have not seen much on the democrat policy on job creation, and why haven't there been a plan laid out for the short-term support or the the ailing economy receive the democrat votes? >> well, i want to be clear. the democrats have put together ten job creation packages in front of the congress, and the house in this is session, and they have all been voted down or not considered by the republican majority, and we have gone 185 days and there has not been a single republican job creation bill, and today, when we face such troubling unemployment numbers, and we know that we have to do things for job creation, i think that on the table should be in addition to whatever long-term fixes we need to make to the reduce the public debt, we also have to stimulate the economy and grow jobs, and
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get people employed, so they can contribute to the growth of our economy, and republicans have an obligation to create jobs, and they can't just sort of bsit by and allow americans to go unemployed. >> and what about the ten bills that democrats have brought to the floor and tried to get them voted on, it seems that just as republicans, there are leverage in the talks to say they won't vote for something that is going to go forward unless the parties are a part of it. and we have seen nothing similar to jobs although it has been said on entitlements, and i'm curious why the job creation bills ahave not been elevated t the hardball tactics as the entitlement package? >> well, it is a fair point, but i want to make sure that it is clear to the american public that democrats while we control the majority in the last
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congress put forward jobs bills that actually died in the united states senate. republican majorities in the house, have not put forward a single jobs package of anything that the american people know and especially those unemployed that it is democrats who have been standing with them for job creation. i look at the very anemic announcement on transportation, and where our republican majority is offering up one-third of the transportation package that the democrats did which will not do anything for the job creation, and we need to consider how to stimulate the economy and how to get people back to work in addition to the needed cuts to our public debt. >> congresswoman donna edwards thank you for joining us this hour. >> thank you, ezra. >> when we come back, a look aboard as tens of millions of egyptians take the street? protest. does the united states have a mounting pakistan problem? new citracal slow release... continuously releases calcium plus d
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turning to the middle east. with thousands of protesters
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once again crowding into the center of the cairo called the friday of determination. silt a scene reminiscent of the early stages of what became and up rooizing that oustest former egyptian president hosni mubarak in february and once again, protesters are calling for justice. vendors have returned to tahrir square for what is now a peaceful show of force. nbc news foreign correspondent richard engle joins us now from cairo. when mubarak stepped down, they promised change, so why have the protesters returned to the square? >> well, the protesters are back out, and they are still in the square right now, ezra, because they don't feel that they have seen the change. there have been a lot of promises, but still, president mubarak has not been put on trial. most of the top security officials have not been forced to resign or been sent to prison as the protesters would like to see. so they came out today in force,
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and by some estimates they were in the square for most of the day and there were perhaps 100,000 people or more than 100,000 people, and they say it is the start of the second continuous revolution until they demands are met. >> looking at the remarkable photos of the masses, and 100,000 seems completely believable, but how long do they plan to have the protest? it is planned or little more organic than that? >> well, it is definitely organized. it is unclear how many people will actually stay in the square. tonight is the first night, so there are many of thousands of people staying there and camped out, and they brought the tents and the food and the blankets, but, as time goes on, we will see if this enthusiasm diminishes, but it is designed to be an open-ended protest to keep pressure on the government which has so far only made promises of implementing reform,
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promises of cracking down on corruption, and they talk about toppling mubarak and the people say, well, really, was mubarak toppled at all or transferred out of sight and out of mind to a hospital in sharm el sheikh? even in sharm el sheikh today which is where mubarak has been, there was a small demonstration in front of the hospital where mubarak is believed to be under medical supervision. >> let's turn to yemen. today we get a look at abdullah salih after he was attacked at his compound last month and he is much more frail in appearance, and why hasn't he returned to yemen. what can you tell us about the situation there? >> well, the situation in yemen is unclear. on the ground, there were protests for the president ali saleh, and the protests against him and the protests happening every friday were only given extra energy by the appearance
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of the yemen president yesterday. he was speaking in a chair in an undisclosed chair in saudi arabia, and he looked so frail that many people did not recognize him, and the skin on his face was much darker, and it appears that the mustache had been burned off and his hands were bandaged and he did not move at all in the chair that he was sitting, but seemed frozen in place. and his face was frozen and expressionless, so if you look at the before and the after picture, it was clear he was very badly injured in the assassination attempt almost one month ago. >> those reaare remarkable imag. thank you, richard engle. i'm joined by spencer from the situation now about pakistan. is there a plan now to shake up
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our plan with pakistan? >> well, it is interesting, ezra, because for the last five years, it is the troubleshooter who has been traveling to pakistan to smooth over the bum independence the u.s. and pakistani relationship and remarkable to hear admiral mullen accused of killing a journalist. it is probably something that says that the united states is losing its patience with the intransigence of the pakistani intelligence and help on this what amounts to a state-sponsored assassination. >> jay carney said that pakistan is an important partner in the effort to disrupt, and dismantle and defeat al qaeda, and continues to be so. but from what you are saying, the government is more suspect of pakistan or to the question, even maybe needs less of them since osama bin laden was killed in his compound there. i mean, is that part of it? we have more leverage now that part of the mission is complete?
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>> well, one of the interesting things about the bin laden kill is that it was not just a unilateral kill or just the pakistanis had no idea it took place, but a demonstration effect about just how stealthily and easily the united states could infiltrate and exfiltrate ineven even into the heart of pakistan without the pakistani's help. they responded with critique and outrage and never rejecting the money, but what we can now show is if the pakistanis really don't want to cooperate to the extent that the united states wants, they have other options. >> so, for a moment, we got bin laden without telling pakistan, and able to do a raid there that they didn't know about until after the fact, and came out on twitter. and now we are criticizing them for murdering journalists. it sort of makes you wonder if the uneasy alliance with pakistan which has often been criticized is a bit of a mistake or at least in retrospect we
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should have handled it differently, and any type of that quarterbacking going on? >> yeah. you are starting to hear a little bit of a reconsideration of the past, you know, five or six years' worth of smart set elite consensus of pakistan is that the pakistanis always distrust the united states to use it up and throw it away. after the cold war we ended the relationships, and sanctioned them for the nuclear program, and we then gave them a bunch of money to invest in the civilian economy where we may not have a direct interest, but it will buy us goodwill. it has not bought us goodwill or the appreciable results on counterterrorism that the u.s. is looking at. you are not seeing a veering away in public from that, but you can talk to the political official, and military officials ark and that ri taey are starti
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talk about the unilateral abilities of the united states. >> thank you, spencer. and now after the town hall, we had time to ask boehner who had a twitter question, and so my ezra twitter blew up and most of the questions were on jobs. here are some that stuck out. we decided to go with the serious ones here, and they are primarily about the economy. bobby tweets, hey, speaker boehner, how have the bush cuts improved the unemployment rate? given that we are thinking of extending $3 trillion or more on them, not a bad question. and freelancer asks, why did paygo get killed? well, i add to it, when speaker
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boehner was inaugurated in january of 2011 why didn't he bring paygo back? and finally perry com tweets, if president reagan could raise taxes 11 times for the good of the country, why can't you? and the gipper, such a sellout. tough questions all around, and i sort of don't think we will see that town hall any time soon, but when we come back, a historic moment at the kennedy space center as space shuttle "atlantis makes the final liftoff. >> controlling the space shuttle "atlantis as they spread their wings one final time as it starts a sentimental journey into history. time or the the your business entrepreneur of the week. mark and jennifer bittermen were riding through france when they had a great meal and discovered it was due to a great salt. they brought it back to sell in their portland store, and word of mouth brought in customers
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and famous chefs and expansion into new york city. for more watch "your business" sunday mornings at 7:30. nnouncer ] where'd you get that idea? how'd you learn to do that? what'd you use? every project we finish comes with a story built-in. it's how our rough ideas become "you did that yourself?" so when we can save more on the projects that let us fix, make, and do more... that just makes the stories even better. more saving. more doing.
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welcome back and milissa rehberger is in the newsroom with the look of the stories developing right now. milissa? >> well, right now, "atlantis is speeding toward the international space station. this is the last time they will
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carry astronauts to the space station. as for "atlantis, the shuttle will retire in florida as a tourist attraction at the kennedy space center. now, no the first arrest in the hacking scandal that brought down the tabloid "news of the world" and less than 24 hours after james murdoch said they would publish the last edition this sunday, the former chief and ex-editor andy poulson was arrested. the arrests don't stop there as clive goodson was arrested for making illegalle payoffs. both men have been released on bail. and there are reports that the offices of the tabloid "daily star" where goodman now works were raided by police as part of the investigation. prince william and kate arrive in california as part of the first official overseas visit and talk about going hollywood, the prince will have a plastic surgeon on standby. the doctor will be at a polo
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tournament, and william is playing in it, and in case he gets hurt and needs to get stitched up, well, that doctor is going to be there, and be sure to tune in for the royal visit on msnbc this weekend. ezra, back to you. >> i don't see what is weird about that, because i have a plastic surgeon on standby. >> is that the guy standing behind you? >> i could fall back in my chair. >> you are high maintenance and i never knew. >> when we come back, wall street may have caused the crisis, but they are not paying for it. chris hayes is going to join the show and maybe he can explain why the rich is getting richer. ♪ working for a living
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i'm sue herera with the cnbc market wrap and here is how the stocks are doing today. it is a tough day, but we are well off of the worst levels the dow is down 76, and it was down well over 100 earlier. the s&p is down 10.5 and the nasdaq down 15.
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internet providers are trying a new tactic to stop illegal downloading and they will issue warnings to users they suspect of stealing content ultimately slowing connections to a crawl. and then providers reserve the right to cut off anyone who violates the terms of service. and the ntsb is working to turn up the volume on hybrid cars. they are pushing for the noise systems, because the nearly silent engines are a danger of anyone on the road who needs to hear the car coming. that is it from cnbc, and first in business worldwide. ezra, back to you and have a great weekend. >> thank you. the financial crisis though it is useful and profitable and for those to pretend otherwise was not a act of god, but primarily of wall street. homeowners got mortgages they could not afford, and lenders gave out mortgages they that knew that the homeowners could not afford, and it was wall street who packaged the loans
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and tucked them under the system and pushed down hard on the detonat detonator, and so three years later with the economy lagging, and sputter, wall street is doing great. not just in terms of the profits, because those are looking really good or paydays are looking even better, they are also back on top in the city that should probably hate them the most, washington. congress might have hated voting for t.a.r.p. and the crisis may have cost a lot of the politicians their jobs, but when you are as rich as wall street, you can convince a lot of people to forget and forgive. recently, reports are that obama is cozying back up to wall street and calling them and going to see them and win the all important financial backing in 2012. but as the new york times andrew sor kin reported, wall street doesn't want phone calms and flowers, but legislation. they are getting it. sorkin's recent column described certain business practices
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saying quote, it is the blatent demonstration of the power of wall street and just as important the willingness of congress to support the interest of banks even in the face of clear evidence that the law has no purpose other than to benefit the financial services industry. chris hayes is an msnbc contributor and editor for washington nation. good to see you, chris. >> good to see you, too, ezra. >> what strikes me about the continuous clout of wall street in washington is that it would be beyond toxic and the politicians would be terrified to associate with them, but how did they get over the hump, and make it safe for politicians to be near them? >> well, it is a good question. part of it is that the fact of the matter is that the amount of money that needs to be raised and the amount of money that wall street has produces the result, and politics be damned. so at a certain level, no one can disarm from the wall street fund-raising race, because that is where the money in the american economy is, and if you are a politician, you need to go get it and it is the old line
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about, why do you rob banks? because that is where the money is. that is where the money is to raise money, so they have the go the wall street. they can try to essentially offset the political cost of that by through rhetoric or, you know, occasional demagoguery about wall street, but really, they are dependent on the wall street, and it is a symbiotic codependent relationship. >> and the bailout of the banks was really a bailout of the banks, and the stuff is complicated. but the tough numbers today suggests whatever we have done for the labor market has not been enough or has not worked, and yet if you look at the bailout and the other interventions and where wall street is, it has worked pretty well. fair to say that the feds are more aggressive and effective to helple wall street get back on the feet than main street get there? >> yeah, absolutely. what we are experiencing right now isdream.
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here's what that looks like in real terms. steven greenhouse linked to a study the other day, a "new york times" labor reporter, the last labor reporter at a major paper. he linked to a study of income growth in this recovery. 88% of which has gone to corporate profits and 1% of which has gone to wage and salary growth. what we're seeing is all of the gains that we have come out of this recovery are being captured by capital, none of it is being captured by labor, wages or salary. this is the perfect kind of sweet spot in some ways. if you're a capitalist or if you're a bank, if you're an owner of capital, you want an economy that grows just enough that you can profit from it. that you can get money, you know, you can see your share price grow, but not so much that you have to start competing for labor by bidding up wages and that's exactly what we have right now. i think it's a big part of the reason that we don't see more urgency about getting out of this sort of second gear the economy is in right now. >> it's funny, because a lot of
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that sustains itself by saying, we can't do these horrible government interventions until other sectors of the economy -- government interventions, they're always bad, they don't work, it all falls apart. jesse isenger, propublica listed all the different things not including the -- not really depending on the bailout and the federal reserve that we do in the normal course of everyday life to make banking safe. fdic, the federal reserve backing it all up. he said, you know, jamie dimond presents himself as the head of jp morgan, as a great capitalist and he's one of the biggest, richest welfare queens in america. >> yeah. >> do you say that's right? >> yeah. there's no such thing as a free market banking system. or there are free market banking systems, but they're total messes. they crash and burn all the time and they produce reliable systemic panic and they're train wrecks basically. modern banking systems in sort of modern industrialized mixed
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economies are essentially wards of the state. they have to be in order to prevent bank runs like the ones we saw in the late 19th century and the big one in 1907 and the one that caused the great depression. so there is no way to sort of delink those two. they are inextricably bound to each other. the question is, who is calling the shots in that relationship? and right now, it's more that the government is sort of the master of the banks than -- i'm sorry. now it's like the banks are the master of the government rather than the other way around. that's the problem. power problem. the relationship between the two is fundamentally unavoidable. what's happened is government has enacted a whole series of policies, extraordinary measures and ordinary measures that push money into the banks and instead of the money going anywhere, it just sort of is going into their pockets. >> chris hayes from los angeles. chris, thank you. and you can catch chris this week on bill maher. that should be very exciting. >> that's right. tonight. thanks a lot, ezra. when we come back, we clear
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the air on unemployment america. first, we take a break from the bad news with a look at a very cool time lapse video from msnbc.com. nbc's jay barbree brings us a different view of the track of the liftoff of space shuttle "atlantis." >> reporter: once "atlantis" was ready, the first step in the final shuttle's trip was rollover. it was towed from its process and hangar to its assembly building following the well worn path of 30 years of rollovers. just one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defends against occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas and bloating. with three strains of good bacteria to help balance your colon.
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you had me at "probiotic." [ female announcer ] phillips' colon health.
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welcome back. today's show has been about the unemployment crisis. how we got here, how we could stupidly and unnecessarily make it worse, and how, if we had some courage, some will and maybe just a little bit of creativity, we could actually make it better. but for that to manifest,
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washington and also the great majority of americans who are safely employed, need to really get a grip, get their hands around how bad unemployment and particularly extended periods of unemployment is. unemployment doesn't just end when you get a job. it lingers. sometimes for a person's whole life and sometimes, in fact, often, into their children's whole lives. the obvious effects are on your income. a major study looked at employment after the 1982 recession and found that the unemployed weren't poor when they had a job, but they were poorer for the rest of their lives. their wounds didn't heal quickly, as researchers thought they might have. 20 years later the researchers learned those workers were still making 20% less than their counterparts who hadn't been laid off. another study looked at college graduates, called students who graduate into a bad labor market and compare them to college students who graduated into a
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good one. the same thing. the college students through no fault of their own ended up graduating in a bad economic year were poorer forever than those who didn't. losing your job also makes you sicker. researchers at yale medical school found people laid off near retirement were twice as likely to suffer from a heart attack or a stroke. other studies found being laid off makes you far more likely to fall into depression. that seems obvious enough but less obviously and more terrifyingly increases your risk of dying. male workers with high seniority that got laid off were 50% to 100% more likely to die in a year after their layoff than their counterparts who kept their jobs. on some level, that may be surprising surprising, but when you think of the trauma of joblessness and associated loss of income, skills, of self-respect, it's really not. it leads into the next and most dispiriting set of findings. if you look at the children of parents who lost their jobs, you can see the lingering effects of
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parental unemployment in their lives as well. they don't go as far in school. they're more likely to be homeless and of course more likely to fall into poverty. this depresses their lifetime earnings, lifetime happiness, health, mental health, success. it's cruel and it's unnecessary. deficits matter. we need to get them under control, but jobs need to come first. if for no other reason than for the children. thank you for watching. matt miller is in for dylan ratigan today. matt, what do you have for us? >> ezra, we're going to pick it up on your great points. the jobs crisis first then the debt showdown obviously which is coming with one of joe biden's top advisers, top former advisers. plus, if you like james bond and you like interesting new cocktails, don't touch that dial. show starts right now.